AGW discussion 107

Just the other day, I was reading "Trashing the Planet", by Dixy Lee Ray.  It is
supposed to be the anti-dote to this left wing environmentalist hysteria. But
I found something in it that was questionable.

You see, even the "good guys" can get corrupted a bit.

Anyway, she said that the atmosphere is what heats up the planet.  Nope, that
is not correct, in my opinion.  Instead of heating up, it is helping to cool
down.  In the process, it is taking the heat that is trapped by the earth on
directing it out to space.  This is what gives us our weather.

I'm sorry, but this book grants too much ground to the warmists.

It is the ocean that makes all the difference.  The land heats up quickly, and
also releases the heat quickly.  It is transmitted through the atmosphere
quickly as well.  If the Earth had no oceans, then the climate would be much
different.  There would be wider swings in the temperatures.

Martian climate

Mars has but little water.  The atmosphere is too thin to support water
on the surface.

If Mars' atmosphere were thicker, it wouldn't heat up much more than now.  It is
the liquid water that contains the heat better.

What if the atmosphere on Mars were to return?  What would the climate be like?
Assuming no oceans, or no seas, that is.  By the way, there may be enough frozen ice in
the ice caps to support some shallow seas on Mars.  Let's for the moment assume
that this doesn't happen.

At present Mars weather is very extreme.  Temperature variations could be more than
75 degree Farenheit between highs and lows for the day.

Would an atmosphere on Mars, absent some shallow seas, make that much difference?

On the other hand, if Mars had three quarters of its surface covered by water,
and a thick atmosphere, like Earth, what would its climate be like?

Probably more like Earth, but not by much.  The high-low temperatures would not
be as extreme.  It would appear "warmer", but it is only because the extremes
have been evened out.  With a deep ocean and thick atmosphere, it would even
out even more.

But the thicker atmosphere only carries the heat.  It doesn't hold it for long.  The
water in the oceans is what makes the difference, as it evens out the extremes.

A simple experiment at home is convincing.. My thermometer is just above and to
the left of my shoulder when I am at the stove.  When cooking, the temperature
will rise more slowly than if there were nothing on top of the stove.

Stands to reason though... Water in food is absorbing a lot of BTU's from the stove.  Those BTU's won't be released as fast, because the water is absorbing the heat.  Less heat is going into the room because it is going into the food.

However, the heat effect should last longer.  The BTU's saved up in water will
warm up the place, but not as high as with the stove burning alone. 

I believe a similar process occurs with climate.  Massive amounts of heat are stored
in the oceans, which is released slowly back into the atmosphere.  This evens out the
temperature variations that would occur if there were no oceans storing up the heat.

Note:

The Wikipedia entry for Martian climate cites claims that solar radiation does
not account for the similar occurrences of climate change that occur at the
same time on both Earth and Mars.  The Wikipedia article cites a quote that is
prejudicial to such a point of view, and degrades it by saying that it "doesn't
make sense."  Such language may influence people to think that it is without
merit.  This is how such bias can influence many people to go along with a
belief that isn't factual nor objective, but emotional.



Updated today, 3.16.18

Following up on the Wikipedia link, I found that Jim McDermott defeated Dixy Lee
Ray for the Democrat nomination for the governorship of Washington state in 1980.

It is the same Jim McDermott, who was charged with an ethical complaint for having
sent an illegally recorded conversation of Newt Gingrich- to the New York Times.

I noticed also that Dixy Lee Ray may have been rumored to be a homosexual, but
these rumors may have been started by someone for a malicious purpose.  Whether
this was in connection to the governor race in 1980, I don't know.  Just saying
that McDermott didn't mind playing dirty, if the Gingrich tape was any indication.

Dixy Lee Ray was considered as a replacement for the outgoing Mr. Shaw, who was
with the Nixon administration when Weinberg got fired.  Weinberg was an advocate
of the molten salt reactor.

Gov. Ray was a champion of nuclear power herself, and most likely would have been
receptive to Weinberg, as opposed to Shaw, who fired Weinberg for questioning
breeder reactor technology.

There is a bit of speculation for you on what might have been.  If Gov. Ray had
been there in place of Shaw, molten salt reactor technology might have been
pursued instead of the failed breeder reactor technology.

Thorium reactor technology could have made this country completely
independent of foreign oil at a time when this was a growing problem
for the nation.  Besides that, it enriched the Islamic world at the expense
of the west.

Just think of what could have been.  It boggles the mind.